Welcome to!News and discussions relating to George R. Martin's 'A Song of Ice and Fire' novels, his Westeros-based short stories, 'Game of Thrones' and all things ASOIAF - but with particular emphasis on the written series. Eastwatch in the Sidebar-Removes Unofficial Game of Thrones S8 Spoilers -No Spoilers: No Spoilers allowed. It's very telling that Barristan and Dany don't talk about Lyanna or Elia in any details. It's the kind of natural conversation to have, and Dany expressly turns away from hearing it.I interpret this to mean that this conversation, from knowledge that Selmy posseses, will eventually help readers piece together R+L=J.
GRRM has been continually salting the books with clues over time. He's not just going to make a huge reveal out of nowhere. It would make most sense to do this randomly.
For example, Dany and Barristan could be reunited in Barristan III in TWOW.' You must tell her. She must know the truth. Your brother Rhaegar was many things. But he was not a perfect man. You asked me once why Rhaegar had turned to the Stark girl. Hear me now.Your aunt, Elia of Dorne, could not bear him another child.
Grand Maester Pycelle had said that her fragile womb could bear no more. Before Robert's war overtook your father's hold on Westeros, your brother fled to Dorne with Lyanna Stark and 3 knights of the Kingsguard. Rhaegar never told me what they were doing there, nor why my brothers did not join us on the Trident, nor why he took the one woman whose disappearance would plunge the realm into war.
Only later did I learn the truth from the maester at Starfall, the seat of my sworn brother's house.Dany looked shaken. 'Are you telling me that my brother had another child? Another Targaryen still lives?' 'Your grace, I cannot say. I only know that he survived.' CUT TO: Jon - I (in TWOW).
Somebody please refresh my memory. Ned goes to King's Landing to accept the defeat, then goes to Starfall to learn the whereabouts of the Tower of Joy, then goes to ToJ, then back to Starfall to return Dawn to Ashara. Is that right? How much time does it take? ANd how can anyone possibly consider Jon to be Ned and Wylla's or Ned and Ashara's baby?
I don't think 9 months went by between his first and second visits to Starfall.Or, if the supposed impregnation of Ashara took place during the Harrenhall tourney then it makes even less fucking sense - roughly 2,5 years have passed between that and Ned's return to Winterfell with Jon. I'm sure that the maester and Catelyn weren't as stupid as to not be able to tell the difference between a new-born baby and a 1,5 y.o.
Toddler.Please tell me what I am missing that would make the whole Ned/Wylla=Jon and Ned/Ashara=Jon at least remotely plausible.
'Latin word lucifer (uncapitalized), meaning 'the morning star, the planet Venus', or, as an adjective, ' light-bringing'. 'The renders הֵילֵל in as Ἑωσφόρος ( heōsphoros), a name, literally ' bringer of dawn', for the morning star. 'the Latin word was not used exclusively in this way and was applied to others also, including.
The image of a morning star fallen from the sky is generally believed among to have in. 'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! 'In Latin, the word is applied to and is used as a title of Jesus himself in several early Christian hymns. The morning hymn Lucis largitor splendide of contains the line: ' Tu verus mundi lucifer' ( you are the true light bringer of the world).'
'The Latin word lucifer is also used of Jesus in the prayer to God regarding the: Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum (' May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever'). 'Jon Snow is GRRM's parallel to Jesus, he is going to resurect, and will become a lightbringer, in that sense, that he will save people from Apocalypse. Or rather GRRM is using three saviours - Dany, Rhaego, and Jon - the Mother, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, GRRM's parallel to the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jon is going to become the Sword of the Morning, and bring 'light'/salvation to people.When Jesus was born, in the sky has appeared Star of Bethlehem. The Star of Bethlehem, or Christmas Star, appears only in the of the, where 'wise men from the East' are inspired by the star to travel to.
There they meet King of, and tell him they are heading to to pay homage to the. Herod calls his scribes and priests who confirm to him that from the interpreted as a prophecy, states that the would be born in Bethlehem to the south of. Secretly intending to find and kill the Messiah in order to preserve his own kingship, Herod invites the wise men to return to him on their way home.The star leads them to Jesus' home in the town, where they worship him and give him gifts. The wise men are then given a divine warning not to return to Herod, so they return home by a different route.Many believe the star was a sign.
Some claimed that the star fulfilled a prophecy, known as the. Have made several attempts to link the star to unusual, such as a of and, a, or a.In ASOIAF, instead of three wisemen/magi, that came to Jesus, GRRM wrote about three wisemen, that came to Dany, following the Bleeding Star comet - Quaithe, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and Pyat Pree. By this three people, and them following falling star, that brought them to Dany, GRRM gave a clue, that Dany is a parallel to Jesus.Also he gave a clue, that 'the dragon has three heads', so there are three Messiahs in ASOIAF. Dany is one of them, beause of that episode from above. The second one is Rhaego, because he is also a parallel to Jesus. This is what Jorah said about the Stallion: AGOT, Chapter 46.
The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns.
He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “ He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written. King of kings and lord of lords.17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.
With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.Rhaego is Khal of Khals, and Khal means King, so he is King of kings, like Jesus.
Which Game Of Thrones House Are You
Also in the Bible Jesus was referred to as the great Shepherd, that will bring together all people, and will rule over them. GRRM has wrote parallel to this, by creating story about Vaes Dothrak - it's a city, that was build for the Stallion, and, according to the legend, he will unite all Dothraki, and will bring them to this city. The legend said - 'All the people of the world will be his herd.' , so Rhaego is the great shepherd like Jesus.In one of Dany's visions, she saw fire coming out of Rhaego's mouth.
Rhaego is the champion of R'hllor, and thus fire is his weapon, his metaphorical sword. Fallout new vegas alien ship location. Jon was not born 'more than 1 year' before Dany. Probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts.So if Jon is Libra, and he was born in September of 283 (40 weeks after Christmas Eve of 282 (pregnancy lasts 40 weeks)), then Dany was born 8-9 months after 23rd September of 283, and that's between May and June of 284, and that is the time of Gemini sign (between May 21 and June 21).
Jon is Libra, Dany is Gemini, thus Rhaego is Aquarius. All three are air signs, because all three are going to be dragonriders.One of clues, that Rhaego could be an Aquarius - Aquariuses are born between January 21 and February 18, Dany has found out about her pregnancy on the day of her 14th birthday, and she gave birth to Rhaego several months prior her 15th birthday (when she and her people has arrived to Qarth, Dany is already 15 years old, and it happened several months after Rhaego's birth, but not later than 6 months after his birth.
Just saying, but the bolded is a black hole and could be anything. I could think Starfall means the arrival of aliens from outer space or arrival of dead Dothraki as they see stars as dead ancestors, or that it's wordplay on the Others/wights being from outer space and I could slap that onto anything in turn.Yes it could be anything.but we already have a story/theory about what happened to Ned Stark at Starfall. The word-play could be related to Ned Stark from an fictional author's POV, even though it would be impossible from a historian POV.
The significance of Starfall in our story is the sword and the one who will use that sword.I agree, and that is one of the few things that would drive the series forward in the future. But what if Starfall had an older original obsolete meaning in GRRM's mind?With the name, historical events, and modern events, Starfall aka Starkfall is has a creative double meaning:.A star falling there (historical).Ned Stark fell and hit rock bottom, House Stark fell and hit rock bottom (metaphorical)Edited October 14, 2018 by The Map Guy. So Starfall is a centrepiece of GRRM writing, not an afterthought.
And there's multiple clues in the books, that support this theory.Agreed, but what if GRRM wrote that second?What if, with a blank piece of paper, author GRRM writes a story about Brandon, Lyanna and Ned.and how as a family, everything went wrong from there. GRRM wanted to name this place Starkfall, a place so far far far from home at Winterfell.Then GRRM creatively removed the 'k' from Starkfall and named it Starfall.THEN he writes about the shooting star, Dawn and Arthur Dayne.and it actually turns into something important to our ASOIAF story.I dunno, that is just me though. A lot of people here on this forum just focus on the text between the covers of the book.I'm interested in everything between the covers, outside the covers, literally on the covers lol, and the thought process of an author when he creatively writes a story. You're in wish fulfillment territory until you find that backup.Okay, let me try a different approach in backing this up.
For nerdy purposes, lets convert House Stark into a stock, like a stock market stock.I can't post a graph here, so visualize with me. Starfall is not an afterthought plot line. It's one of the most important places on Planetos' atlas.Ancestral sword of Daynes is called Dawn, and the wielder of that sword is the Sword of the Morning. Azor Ahai's sword is called Lightbringer. Dawn of Daynes is the Lightbringer.
Starfall, Dawn, Lightbringer, the Sword of the Morning - all of it is references to Lucifer/fallen angel or to Jesus.Jon Snow is GRRM's parallel to Jesus, he is going to resurect, and will become a lightbringer, in that sense, that he will save people from Apocalypse. Or rather GRRM is using three saviours - Dany, Rhaego, and Jon - the Mother, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, GRRM's parallel to the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jon is going to become the Sword of the Morning, and bring 'light'/salvation to people.When Jesus was born, in the sky has appeared Star of Bethlehem.In ASOIAF, instead of three wisemen/magi, that came to Jesus, GRRM wrote about three wisemen, that came to Dany, following the Bleeding Star comet - Quaithe, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and Pyat Pree. Cs go heavy assault suit men. By this three people, and them following falling star, that brought them to Dany, GRRM gave a clue, that Dany is a parallel to Jesus.Also he gave a clue, that 'the dragon has three heads', so there are three Messiahs in ASOIAF. Dany is one of them, beause of that episode from above. The second one is Rhaego, because he is also a parallel to Jesus.
This is what Jorah said about the Stallion: AGOT, Chapter 46:And this is what was written in the Bible about Jesus:Rhaego is Khal of Khals, and Khal means King, so he is King of kings, like Jesus. Also in the Bible Jesus was referred to as the great Shepherd, that will bring together all people, and will rule over them. GRRM has wrote parallel to this, by creating story about Vaes Dothrak - it's a city, that was build for the Stallion, and, according to the legend, he will unite all Dothraki, and will bring them to this city. The legend said - 'All the people of the world will be his herd.' , so Rhaego is the great shepherd like Jesus.In one of Dany's visions, she saw fire coming out of Rhaego's mouth. Rhaego is the champion of R'hllor, and thus fire is his weapon, his metaphorical sword.
So what you guys think of Starkfall?The Starks never had grace. What Lyanna, Brandon, Robb, Sansa, Catelyn, Jon, and Arya have done and continue to do prove they do not have the moral upper hand. Some of the book fans have this misconception that they are morally superior to the other houses.
That's not true. The series started with a lot of Stark povs and so the reader could erroneously come to the conclusion that this family is somehow above the rest in terms of honor and morals. Their war to conquer the north was very bloody and vicious. For the Starks to judge Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryen is like the pot calling the kettle black. The hungry wolf was so brutal that he makes Tywin and Aerys look reasonable in their handling of the Tarbecks and the Darklins.
The Starks could not fall from grace because they had none. The Andals are a better people than the First Men. At least in my opinion. No, Starfall is not Starkfall. Winterfell is.
The Starks never had grace. What Lyanna, Brandon, Robb, Sansa, Catelyn, Jon, and Arya have done and continue to do prove they do not have the moral upper hand.
Some of the book fans have this misconception that they are morally superior to the other houses. That's not true. The series started with a lot of Stark povs and so the reader could erroneously come to the conclusion that this family is somehow above the rest in terms of honor and morals. Their war to conquer the north was very bloody and vicious. For the Starks to judge Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryen is like the pot calling the kettle black.
The hungry wolf was so brutal that he makes Tywin and Aerys look reasonable in their handling of the Tarbecks and the Darklins. The Starks could not fall from grace because they had none. The Andals are a better people than the First Men. At least in my opinion. No, Starfall is not Starkfall.
Winterfell is.I mean, GRRM, the author, refers to the Starks as the good guys. Rhaego was stillborn. He is dead and was born that way. He will not play a role in the upcoming chapters as a living breathing character.I'll agree with you, if he won't return in next book with Dany's POV, if he is not in Vaes Dothrak, and if he is not with Quaithe at Asshai.Someone needs to be the third head of the dragon, and it's obviously not fAegon, who is mummers dragon, and not Tyrion, who is a Lannister, and has zero of dragonseed blood. The colors of Dany's three dragons, and even their names are sufficient clues about identity of future riders of those dragons.
Starfall is where a meteor struck GRRth. Meteors are typically rocky or metallic in composition and in our own human history the metallic ones have even been forged into knives and swords. Comets are made of ice and frozen super-cooled gases which vaporize when they enter the earths atmosphere.
I'll agree with you, if he won't return in next book with Dany's POV, if he is not in Vaes Dothrak, and if he is not with Quaithe at Asshai.Someone needs to be the third head of the dragon, and it's obviously not fAegon, who is mummers dragon, and not Tyrion, who is a Lannister, and has zero of dragonseed blood. I'm kind of amused that you presented biblical parallels and christian calendar lore in your post up thread but resist me pointing out science based observations.I didn't said, that your science based observations are wrong, I just meant, that it's nothing more than a matter of polemics (or is it semantics? Sorry, English isn't my native language) - how to call that flying/falling object - comet, star, meteorite, asteroid, or something else.It doesn't matter, from what kind of material was that bigger flying object (Bleeding Star), because maybe when one piece of it separated from the main body (for example because of collision between Bleeding Star and some other flying object), that separated piece, after flying thru atmosphere of Planetos, changed its properties. Or properties of the original material changed, because this piece of Bleeding Star, after collision with that other flying object, merged with material of that other object. So that falling star, from which was forged Dawn, could be not only a piece of Bleeding Star comet, but a merge of material from which was made Bleeding Star, and material of that other object.
So even though comets, as you said before, are clumps of ice, and not rocks or metal, it is still possible, that Dawn was forged from the same material, as material of Bleeding Star + addition of some other materials.And I presented biblical parallels, because GRRM's works are a strange mix of biblical themes, fantasy and sci-fi elements. Plot summaryDamien Har Veris, a priest skilled in resolving heretical disputes efficiently, although now spiritually exhausted, is sent by his archbishop as Knight Inquisitor to deal with a particular cult that has made a saint of Judas Iscariot.The sect follows a religious text, The Way of Cross and Dragon, that describes the life of Iscariot, and his place in Christianity. The text describes how, born of a prostitute, Iscariot mastered the to become a tamer of dragons and the ruler of a great empire. After torturing and maiming, Iscariot repented and relinquished his empire to become the penitent Legs of Christ, the first and best-beloved of the. Returning from proselytizing to find Christ, an enraged Iscariot then destroyed the perpetrating empire and strangled for renouncing Christ, only to discover, too late, Christ's.
Rejecting Judas' violence, Christ restored St. Peter to life and gave him the. Peter then suppressed the truth about Judas, vilifying his name and exploits. Seeking redemption for his wrath, Iscariot became the thousand-year-old, before finally rejoining Christ in the.Etc.
While peaceably eating in a restaurant, Tuf is attacked by Jaime Kreen. Kreen is convicted for the attack and bonded to Tuf as a servant in debt. Kreen explains that his society (a technologically advanced secondary colony established as an on the planet Charity) has been taken over by a primitivist religious leader named Moses.
I agree that GRRM still needs to reveal who the three heads of the dragon (riders) will be. Surely there must be better candidates than stillborn monsters that came into the world with flesh that sloughed off the bone, and insides full of graveworms and the stink of corruption?Mirri could have lied about Rhaego. No one besides her was there, when Rhaego was born. Jorah at that time was not in Drogo's tent, same as Dany's handmaids.
According to Mirri's version, of what happened, the baby dissolved in her hands, when he was born. And she allowed other people to go to Dany, only after the blood ritual and the childbirth were over, thus no one besides Mirri saw the baby. There is no evidences, that he is dead, but there are evidences, that he is alive (Dany's visions of the future with Rhaego in it).Eventually we will see, whether he is really dead (that's if he won't return in one of next books). I think, that in the original series, the one that was supposed to be a trilogy, and to have a five year time skip in it, that time skip was needed for Rhaego to grow up. But later GRRM has figured out some other way, how to make Rhaego part of the plot, even though he is still a baby, so he skipped a time skip. I wouldn't rush to judgement on this one.
It's got to be at least possible that each name in this vast array was not a unique inspiration, but generated by some kind of rule. I mean, patterns have been noticed and discussed: the 'Ty', the 'ae' e.t.c.If names are constructed like this, out of parts, maybe a Stark is just a star with a bit of extra 'k'. And what is a star anyway? Dany says Drogo is her 'sun and stars', Her husband and family, maybe?Yes, GRRM puts all sorts of weird name stuff in his books so fans will have something to dig through and occupy ourselves with as we rapidly approach a decade between book releases. So get looking for Dany's husband, the sunk and stark. I dunno, that is just me though.
A lot of people here on this forum just focus on the text between the covers of the book.Lol, sweet summer child. You haven't been here long is you have no idea about the fan fic (theories, plot wishes, what if's) that people will go on an on about vehemently for days and weeks without a single bit of info from the books. There was a thread a while back where someone was certain that Mance Rayder was the knight of the laughing tree. His 'evidence' was that mance played the dornishman's wife to Jon in their parley beyond the wall. Let's stick to what is written. Yes, GRRM puts all sorts of weird name stuff in his books so fans will have something to dig through and occupy ourselves with as we rapidly approach a decade between book releases.
So get looking for Dany's husband, the sunk and stark I just feel that Starfall/Starkfall are very similar as words. And with the compilation of popular theories, the Starks had a 'fall' from grace at Starfall.I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Greywater Watch, a green swamp with green water, with green this and green that.is not called Greenwater Watch. I do have a theory I mentioned months ago, and it may even explain why all these ASOIAF books are taking so long to come out. You need to ask him then.
How the hell would we know?Ask him. He has an email address and a blog. Get out of wish fulfilment and into asking the author. Shit, you might even surprise us with his answer, but we will never know until you try.Lol, sweet summer child.
You haven't been here long is you have no idea about the fan fic (theories, plot wishes, what if's) that people will go on an on about vehemently for days and weeks without a single bit of info from the books. There was a thread a while back where someone was certain that Mance Rayder was the knight of the laughing tree. His 'evidence' was that mance played the dornishman's wife to Jon in their parley beyond the wall. Let's stick to what is written.GRRM won't admit anything to Starkfall/Starfall because it would require him to confirm B+A, just as if I asked him if the Meereenese Knot had anything to do with Meera Reed, he's not going to say yes because it would also confirm R+L=J.Yeah some people here have brought in some crazy theories with minimal and weak evidence, but even when I presented my Meera twin theory with some of my evidence, it still didn't convince people. I was told to stick to 'what was written', but I'm the Map Guy, I saw my strongest evidence on what GRRM drew on his maps.Sorry, going off topic. Maybe I'll post my remaining notes on Meera some day.Edited October 16, 2018 by The Map Guy.
I just feel that Starfall/Starkfall are very similar as words. And with the compilation of popular theories, the Starks had a 'fall' from grace at Starfall.While they are very similar, how has the house fallen from grace? Ned did the honorable thing and returned the sword.
He left with a bastard son, but that was his personal dishonor, not his families, and we all know that he was also saving his sister's honor, and protecting the prince of dragonstone's heir. The Starks actually 'fell' at the twins.
Contents.LayoutThe castle is located in the western on an island in the where it pours into the. Starfall, which includes a tower called the Palestone Sword, guards the western arm of Dorne. Northeast of Starfall is, the seat of a.History Older HistoryAccording to legend, Starfall was built where the first found a after he followed the path of a shooting star. The Daynes grew in power to become the and one of the strongest houses of.The Daynes submitted to during.
Targaryan EraAfter Ser attacked during the, Queen burned Starfall with her dragon,.Prince and Princess visited Starfall on their way to where their mother was to broker their marriage to the twins, and.In the aftermath of, Ser, the, perished at the. When Lord returned Arthur's sword, the ancestral blade, to Starfall, Arthur's sister threw herself from the castle's Palestone Sword tower.
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